Episode 4 – Land, Community, and Indigenous Wisdom with Chris Hoklotubbe & Danny Zacharias

SPECIAL OFFER | As a listener of the show, you can get 25% off Deb Gregory's new book, Spiritual Wayfinding (www.ivpress.com/spiritual-wayfinding) , by using the code IVPOD25 at checkout at ivpress.com. We hope you enjoy this season!


In this episode, Deb Gregory talks with Chris Hoklotubbe and Danny Zacharias about Indigenous Christian wisdom and the role of land in shaping faith, community, and Scripture. We explore embodied practices of gratitude and reciprocity, Turtle Island hermeneutics, and the ways reconnecting with the land transforms how we read the Bible and live well.
Key insights include:

• The importance of land-based spiritual practices rooted in Indigenous stories like Sky Woman and Turtle Island.
• The significance of the circle dance as a metaphor for community interpretation of scripture and life with God.
• How biblical stories of creation and covenant invite us into a relational view of land, moving beyond exploitation.
• Disrupting doctrines like the Doctrine of Discovery with asset-based Indigenous theologies recognizing God’s presence everywhere.
• Practical embodied practices: slowing down, saying thank you, touching trees, and honoring the land as a spiritual act of gratitude.
• The role of gratitude and recognition in fostering belonging, empathy, and a sacred interconnectedness.
• The integration of Indigenous wisdom into Christian spirituality as a way to live well with all our relations.



Timestamps:


00:00 - Welcome and introduction to guests and themes of land, community, and spirituality


02:09 - The embodied nature of land connection and its scientific backing


04:12 - Grounding in mountains, plains, and ocean—land as a space for prayer and presence


05:33 - Indigenous stories of Sky Woman, Turtle Island, and the land as a reciprocal gift


10:47 - The circle dance as a metaphor for interpretive community and scriptural engagement


16:42 - Co-authoring "Reading the Bible on Turtle Island" and the journey of cultural reclamation


20:23 - The meaning of the book's title and the land as a story of gratitude and interconnectedness


23:21 - Turtle Island hermeneutics: engagement with creation and Scripture as a relational act


25:29 - Challenging the Genesis 3 narrative with asset-based theology grounded in goodness


27:40 - Disrupting the Doctrine of Discovery with indigenous perspectives of land as God's gift


32:03 - The garden as a space of covenantal relationship and stewardship


35:13 - Embodied practices: gratitude, slowing down, and caring for trees and land


39:48 - Invitation for listeners to adopt land-based mindfulness and gratitude practices


43:56 - How land and nature deepen our relationship with God and the sacred story


45:50 - Concluding reflections and call to ongoing dialogue and action




Resources & Links:


Reading the Bible on Turtle Island (book) (www.ivpress.com/reading-the-bible-on-turtle-island)


NAIITS - North American Institute for Indigenous Theological Studies (naiits.com/)


Connect with Deb Gregory: Instagram (www.instagram.com/spiritualwayfinding/) | Flourish Spiritual Direction Website (www.flourishspiritualdirection.com/)


Connect with Chris Hoklotubbe: LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/chris-hoklotubbe-6372391a2/)


Connect with Danny Zacharias: Personal Website (www.zfaction.com/danny-zacharias)






This episode invites us all to slow, listen, and honor the sacred relationships that sustain life. May we approach land and each other with gratitude, humility, and a spirit of reciprocity, embodying the deep wisdom that abounds in creation and Scripture alike.




Soundtrack Credits:


Opening Music: Palms Down by Blue Dot Sessions


Documentary Nature Music by Viacheslav Starostin


Closing Song: "Roots" by Ryvoli